Messages

@Kast, i figured you didnt mean for them to be a freebie attacks... I just wanted to do my best to put down what you guys said word for word. So I wasnt going to adjust it on my own.

Wasn't the intention; was an oversight on my part.  I forgot that is *exactly* how it works.  I think without the extra attack per turn they are pretty balanced units... at least the thief is once sneak is altered to be only attacks. Got carried away there

Cheers for the comments; amendments, where appropriate, are below...

Pikeman | Guardian 
[STR: 3, DEF: 15, LIFE: 6]
Ability 1: Pike (Passive) - This unit may attack any unit up to 3 spaces away. Any enemy unit that moves adjacent to the Pikeman takes an attack of 1 STR.
Ability 2: Impale (1 card) - Make an attack against an unit within range. It the attack hits the unit is immobilized.
Entry: Kastenessen
***(Rating 2.5/5) - The impale ability means this unit gets a second attack for 1 card, making it too powerful as there is no real consequence like the warrior.

- Totally forgot about the 'freebie' attacks. Impale should have the proviso that if used, you cannot attack or move next round.

Negation-Mage | Guardian 
[STR: 1, DEF: 12, LIFE: 5]
Ability 1: Dispell Magic (2 cards) - Dispell a target unit of all magic effects.
Ability 2: Anti-magic (Passive) - Whenever the Negation-Mage deals damage to a unit, the controller of that unit discards a card for each point of damage delt.
Entry: Kastenessen
***(Rating 4/5) - A dispell on a guardian is something i am not sure about as it can be too clutch of a card, but making it cost 2 cards make its a well balanced ability. The stats also offset the powerful abilities it has. Just maybe 1 more STR or life would make it "almost" perfect.

- I really like him as is; he's weak, but his abilities are *very* powerful.

Shield-Bearer | Guardian 
[STR: 2, DEF: 17, LIFE: 6]
Ability 1: Grant Cover (Passive) - Friendly units surrounding the Shield-Bearer have +2 to their defense, as long as they are surrounding him/her.
Ability 2: Shield-Bash (1 card) - Roll 1 die on an adjacent unit. An 8 or above stuns the target unit, until the start of your next turn.
Entry: Kastenessen
***(Rating 2/5) - A hard to kill unit making other units hard to kill, makes this unit a bit on the powerful side. Throw in a guardian that again can stun, makes it over the top on the powerful side. The only balance to it, is it is a 1 dice roll check making it a 60% chance.

- Grant Cover should be +1 def and shield bash should go to 2 cards.

Thief | Guardian 
[STR: 2, DEF: 13, LIFE: 5]
Ability 1: Theft (Passive) - If this unit deals damage to an opposing unit, the controller of the Thief, may look at the controller of the target's hand and exchange 1 card with them.
Ability 2: Sneak (2 cards) - Roll 1 die, on a result of 5 or higher, the Thief cannot be targeted by attacks, spells or abilities until the start of your next turn.
Entry: Kastenessen
***(Rating 2/5) - Again, an ability that makes a unit untouchable is too powerful. Meaning most the time it can run around doing damage and never taking any in return. The rest of the unit is pretty nice.

- Sneak should only prevent the targetting of attacks.

Druid | Guardian 
[STR: 3, DEF: 14, LIFE: 5]
Ability 1: Turtle form (1 card) - This unit gets +3 defense, and takes half damage from any source of damage rounded up. This ability may not be used if Panther form was already used this turn.
Ability 2: Panther form (1 card) - This unit gains 2 strength. Whenever this unit deals damage with Panther form active, it deals an extra damage. This ability may not be used if  turtle form was already used this turn.
Entry: Kastenessen
***(Rating 4.5/5) - [1 of my favorite ideas] This unit can be offensive or defensive, or neither depending on the cards used. The only tweak that would make it nicer, is if it had 1 less natural attack and gained 3 strength on the panther form so a turtle form doesnt have 3 STR.

- You're right; -1 base strength, +1 in panther.

Apprentice Wizard | Guardian 
[STR: 2, DEF: 11, LIFE: 5]
Ability 1: Teleport (2 cards) - Same as the spell Teleport.
Ability 2: Lightning bolt (0 cards) - Same as the spell Lightning bolt.
Entry: Kastenessen
***(Rating 4/5) - Well balance, maybe just a bit low on the defensive stats, and maybe a teleport on a guardian isnt a good idea.

- I like him as is.

Duelist | Guardian 
[STR: 3, DEF: 15, LIFE: 5]
Ability 1: Crippling Blow (1 card) - Roll 2 attack dice against a surrounding enemy unit. If this attack hits, that unit is immobilized until the start of your next turn.
Ability 2: Poison (Passive) - If the duelist deals damage to a unit, it becomes poisoned. Poisoned units lose 1 hp at the start of their turn until dispelled or the target of a healing spell or ability.
Entry: Kastenessen
***(Rating 1.5/5) - Poison type abilities can be too powerful, as only 1/5 the deck is restoration cards. Not to mention a 1 card extra attack that can also immobilize... way too powerful.

- Again, forgot about the freebie attack... cripple to 3 cards. I like Poison to be honest; its also defeated by paladins and there will probably be a 'healer' mage at some stage.

Cheers,

kast.

Has to be an award for killing your opponent's mage on the very first turn.

Dice rolls have their pros and cons - obviously the random element makes for some exciting moves, but it can also detract from the strategy.

Another game that I've played a few times had an interesting take on this problem... they eliminated dice for cards. Malifaux is the game; if you're familiar, the way the game works (basically) is that instead of rolling dice you have a deck of cards (everyone has their own deck).  You draw a hand of cards, and each card has a number on it. This number substitutes for a dice roll - you can therefore manage the results of your dice by playing certain cards at different times.

In this game, you would probably draw a hand of say, 5 cards (or 7) and draw to replace each time you play a card. This system has some interesting effects:

1 - it allows you to prepare good 'rolls' for when they really need to count
2 - the more dice you roll in one turn, the more randomness that you incur.

Hardly expect this system to replace dice here, but what do people think of the idea?

Kast.

Here's a couple of ideas:

     Pikeman | Guardian
     STR: 3 DEF: 15 LIFE: 6/6

     Ability 1 Pike | Passive
     This unit may attack enemy units up to three spaces away. Whenever an enemy unit moves within the Pikeman's range, roll 1 attack dice against them.

     Ability 2 Impale | 1 card
     Make an attack against a unit within range.  If you deal any damage to that unit that unit becomes immobilised.



     Negation Mage | Guardian
     STR: 1 DEF: 12 LIFE: 5/5

     Ability 1 Dispel Magic | 2 Cards
     Exactly as the spell of the same name.

     Ability 2 Anti-Magic | Passive
     If Negation Mage deals any damage to a unit, the controller of that unit discards one card for each point of damage so dealt.



     Shield-Bearer | Guardian
     STR: 2 DEF: 17 LIFE: 6/6

     Ability 1 Grant Cover | Passive
     Friendly units surrounding the Shield-Bearer gain 2 defense.

     Ability 2 Shield Bash | 1 card
     Roll one dice against target adjacent enemy unit. On an 8 or above, that unit is stunned.



     Thief | Guardian
     STR: 2 DEF: 13 LIFE: 5/5

     Ability 1 Theft | Passive
     If this unit deals damage to an enemy unit, you may look at the controller of that unit's hand.  Then you may choose to exchange one card in his hand for one card in your own.
     
     Ability 2 Sneak | 2 card
     Roll one die. On a result of 5 or better, this unit cannot be targetted by attacks, spells or abilities until the start of your next turn.



     Druid | Guardian
     STR: 3 DEF: 14 LIFE: 5/5

     Ability 1 Turtle Form | 1 Card
     This unit gains +3 defense until the start of your next turn and receives only half damage from any sources (round up).  Cannot be used the same turn as Panther Form
     
     Ability 2 Panther Form | 1 card
     This unit gains +2 strength.  Any time this unit deals damage, deal an extra damage.



     Apprentice Wizard | Guardian
     STR: 2 DEF: 11 LIFE: 5/5

     Ability 1 Teleport | 2 Cards
     As per the spell.
     
     Ability 2 Lightning Bolt | 0 card
     As per the spell.



     Duellist | Guardian
     STR: 3 DEF: 15 LIFE: 5/5

     Ability 1 Crippling Blow | 1 card
     Roll 2 attack dice against a surrounding enemy unit.  If this ability deals any damage, that unit becomes Immobilised.
     
     Ability 2 Poison | Passive
     If the Duellist deals any damage to an enemy unit, that unit becomes Poisoned. Poisoned units lose one life at the start of your turns, until the effect is dispelled or the unit is Healed.

Kast.

Since playing the last few days I've found a new combination that I really like. Under the current system, I find the selection of Fighter Mage, Warrior and Soul Reaver to be very effective. I've posted this thread to find out what other people use and why... I'll go first!

I like this group for a number of reasons.  Primarily though, these units all synergise really well with each other.  Firstly, both the Warrior and the Reaver benefit disproportionately from Augmentation spells for which the Fighter Mage has an affinity.

These units benefit more than others for each type of bonus.  For strength, these units can both attack twice per turn, thereby receiving a double benefit.  For HP, units with high defense will gain more out of health bonuses than would lower defense units.  Additionally, the Soul Reaver benefits greatly from extra defense - defense increases her offense.

Aside from that angle, the synergy between the Warrior and the Reaver is hard to overstate.  The Warrior can turn the Reaver into a very very dangerous unit with the protect ability. In general, I use the Reaver as my main attacker while I search for Augmentation spells to boost the warrior.

Also worth noting is how well the Reaver's taunt can overcome opponents. This is especially true of Warriors, who effectively lose one attack per round if taunted.

The biggest weaknesses of this setup are the Rogue and the Psionist.  Both of these units can mitigate some of the biggest strengths, especially if the Rogue is supported by a Bard. The Rogue can be taunted, but cannot be counterattacked and the Psionist can negate both high defense and melee if you can feed her cards.

Anyone else? What combinations of guardians do you use? Why?

Kast.

I've now voted twice and posted a comment (same username as here); glad to get the e-mailing reminding me of this game! Had some real fun playing a few games today and yesterday.

I'll post up a character idea when I've had a moment to think about a good one...

I guess the thing to consider is how often people *choose* not to run the Psion.

Kast.

Any new game modes would have to be unranked first I'm sure - to both get bugs out and work out if they're popular enough to really bother maintaining.

Another cool one could be King of the Hill - have maps with zones where you score points if you're the only player with units in the zone at the end of a given round. First to X points wins.

Kast.

I just don't understand your comment about not playing this if you can die first turn.  That can, more or less, happen *right now* in the current game modes.  If your hero can be killed first turn in the game as it currently is, it is still very much over, just not formalised.

I'm sure the priority across all game modes is to limit how often this sort of thing happens.

Kast.

I really like the FM/Psion/Barb (or samurai, as diesbudt says) combo too.  It falls apart really fast if you lose the psion, but it can end games exceedingly quickly by snatching someone on the first or second turn and killing them.

Personally I like the barbarian, because well... he's just a nutter. ROAR!

EDIT: Maybe mind control should cost 2 cards or have a reduced range? It seems that the psion is very very powerful compared to the other guardians.  At least, that's the way I see it from my limited perspective.

Kast.

I've seen people suggest Assassination mode a few times, but I was thinking about other types that'd be fun.

One in particular would be a FFA mode requiring 3 or more players.  Essentially each player is assigned a target - whoever's target dies first wins.  The idea is that everyone would have one single kill to snatch victory, but it is in everyone else's interest to ensure they can't quite get there... but don't hurt someone too hard, because you might weaken them too much!

Thoughts?

Kast.

As far as secret alliances go, there's nothing that stops players using third party programs like Ventrilo or msn to do just that currently.

Kast.

Cheers for the responses guys.

I knew I forgot something - replays! Definitely worthwhile.  Would love to see that implemented.

One thing I'd like to bounce off you as well is the idea of a standardised format for ranked games.  It doesn't seem to make much sense to me to have a whole bunch of different gametypes (and different maps) all contributing to the same ranking system. Obviously not a priority now, but are there plans to standardise what contributes to ranked or, perhaps more importantly, add different ladders for rankings?

Kast.

--First Kast the problem with this is many games the hero can die before the other person even gets a turn. Basically that isn't fair (in current position or in an assassination game). Killing a hero quickly already reduces how long the game will play out and severly reduces your opponents strength.

If this is the case, then it needs to be addressed regardless of an assassination mode - as you note, it is imbalanced regardless of assassination mode.  If this were addressed, I can't see why an assassination mode would not work.

[The other thing, for normal games, would be to stop card draw after your hero dies.  That would speed the end game up considerably, as you couldn't spam your guardian abilities - most importantly the Psion's Mind Control which slows things up a great deal.]

--the problem with this is, the guardians need to be able to somewhat stand on their own. Saying their powers are limited will make it JUST like assassination mode.  BOOM hero is dead i win cuz the guardians cant even defend them selves (and in team battle they might as well quit, because you cant do much else but move and attack). PLUS there is a stratedgy with drawing cards even with the hero dead, you can hold cards in your hand your opponent(s) might need to make sure that he wins. (Like revive, disentigrate, teleport, demonic lash, etc.)

This is just a difference in perspective - personally, I'd like to see these heroes unable to stand on their own so as to speed up the endgame.  It might be better to suggest that in team games you still generate mana (and cards) so long as at least one player per team still controls a heromage.  Obviously if only one player's heromage has died, you haven't really entered the endgame, so perhaps this version would be better - you're right, if we cut off cards too early, it encourages disconnection. 

[Private Messaging - a /tell or /whisper command to send messages to other players ingame.]

--This isn't needed. You already have PM in lobby, in a game it really isnt needed because A) part of the game is "social" politics. So all conversations should be out in the open (like it is a board game).  B) You already have a "pm" for team chat, it isnt needed for FFA because it isnt fair to secretly gang up on someone. Openly ganging up is fine.

Fair enough - could be addressed by allowing spectators to join mid-game (if this is possible, I've missed it) to talk to people in game.  Other games handle private messaging from game to lobby well.

[Clans - not really important at the moment, but given that you have team play modes, it might be good to see down the track.  Clan ownership could be another feature for sale too. Each clan could have a logo, a guild chat channel and perhaps a forum?]

--Maybe in the future when it grows beyond only 15ish people on at once. Basically it is just a "pick-up" game. I know we suggested having a separate Team ladder for teams to keep track on how they do on other teams. This would be nice.

[Forums - why not build the forum into the client? There's space in that bar there; it'd encourage more postings, I'm sure.

Different Terrain - I'd love to see some different terrain features.  I had a couple ideas about that.]

--Ross is either working on implementing this, or it has been suggested multiple times and still in conversation phase of it  But I would like (1,3). it is very doable.

*problem with 2 is at the current moment when we move a character we only get to choose where they go, not how they go there.  4 seems like alot of work to implement in what (as you said earlier) is a "simple" game. 5 is "fog of war" problem with that is, all LoS is thrown out the window, and half the abilities are useless Part of the game is the LoS at a long distance.

Ahhh yeah, pathing would be important. Given that you can't elect to break your move up damaging terrain probably doesn't work.

[Grid coordinates - we have a grid that the game uses.  There's no reason why those numbers shouldn't be visible on the margins - it makes it easier to coordinate teams "move rogue to 11, 1".]

--Already in the game, look at the log during a game you will see   Fighter mage moves [X, Y] to [X, Y].  {It starts with row and column 0 on the top left and adds one as it moves down/right}

I know its in the game - I noted that the game already uses this information.  But it isn't exactly clear or useful the way it is currently presented.  By adding a grid to the margin (even better would be to make one edge alphabetical and the other numerical), this information could be utilised much quicker in game.


Cheers,

Kastenessen.