Okay, so we have the 5 types of spells and 4 types of mages. Sorceress is Destruction, Fighter Mage is Augmentation, Wizard is Manipulation, and Summoner is well, Summon. So WHERE DOES RECOVERY COME IN???????????????? Each types of spell needs its own class!
I once thought that Paladins should be able to use Recovery spells, but that WOULD be OP so I disregarded that.
Some people would say Recovery-Specialized Mage would be OP...... Well they are wrong. Here is some ideas Ross can make to make them not "OP":
1) They can't use melee
2) They can't use Destruction powers
3) They have ridiculously low armor, like 10 or 11
4) Can not have both Paladin and Healer on your team at the same time
Some powers I would suggest:
1) To replace melee, they can have a Heal 1 Health touch "attack"
2) Draw a random Recovery card- 5 Valor Cost: 1 Card
3) Heal one friendly ally for 3 Health, ally can't be healed for two turns- 10 Valor Cost: 1 Card
4) Passive Your hero automatically heals one from itself at the start of its turn 15 or 20 Valor*
*I suggest 20 Valor, even though everyone else's is 15 because this kind of is OP.
I know this was random, but Ross you've neglected the class I would prefer to play the most.....
Any comments or dislikes?
Healing is notoriously difficult to balance due to the guaranteed effect vs. randomness of damage; but I like your ideas here. A recovery-specialized mage has been on que for sometime; she'll definately be in a future expansion once I've raised enough funds for new unit art.
Thanks, its just I feel we are missing out on a big part of the game. :)
Quote from: Ross Przybylski on February 27, 2012, 06:57:41 AM MT
Healing is notoriously difficult to balance due to the guaranteed effect vs. randomness of damage; but I like your ideas here. A recovery-specialized mage has been on que for sometime; she'll definately be in a future expansion once I've raised enough funds for new unit art.
I've been thinking a lot about this lately, actually, and I had a few ideas that could be used to make balancing easier. You could do something like this...
Recovery Mage
1 Str / 12 Def / 6 HP
Healing Touch: 5 valor, 1 card - Attack adjacent ally and each hit heals HP instead of damaging. Use Str 3 for this attack.
Circle of Protection: 10 valor, passive - Any summoned creature that damages mage is destroyed.
Healing Burst: 15 valor, 2 cards - All visible heal 2 HP.
The first ability treats healing to the same probabilities of damage, so it should balance out better.
The second ability doesn't heal, but focuses on another recovery spell, Unsummon. It gives protection against summons, but only after they damage you.
The third ability is another way of balancing healing. Since it is a set amount it is balanced by affecting friend and foe alike. You would have to do careful maneuvering to have it only help you.
I actually really like that idea to heal friendly an enemy units. Very interesting concept!
I don't want to be harsh. but this idea, sucks. You are taking away the basic concepts of a healing based character! She doesn't get any bonuses to heals, no reduced cost, nothing. You're making her power VERY limited, which is completely unfair. She would easily be slaughtered by Mage and guardian alike. The attack-heal thing is kind of weak, the summon destroyer ability won't affect much in the long run, especially if the blow is a killing blow. And the "heal everything YAY unicorn power" (my name for it) is a little unfair to the healer herself also. That takes away the background story of Hero Mages. To make sure that each Mage has the goal of becoming THE HeroMage. So healing others would not even be considered.
Sorry for my harsh criticism,
-Kevin
I actually agree that healing enemy units is a fair. As Ross pointed out, healing is a guaranteed 'hit', as opposed to attacking.
The thing is, as long as you maintain your mana, and keep using your abilities, you pretty much are invincible with heal, while withering away at your opponent's health.
I actually thought of some mages back in the character idea thread, some with mixed specialization, and one with healing specialization. Here is the repost of the healer concept I did:
Healer - Mage
(0 Strength, 14 Defense, 6 Life)
Passive, Medical Training: Player's Recovery spell modifiers get +1 absolute value
Valor 5, 1 Card, Healing Aura: Surrounding units recover 1 Life (regardless whether ally or enemy, and Healer himself don't recover)
Valor 10, 1 Card, Blood Magic: Converts 1-3 Life to the same amount of Mana (this is random, similar to sprint; especially scary in situations where you need 1 more Mana for Healing Hand, and has exactly 3 Life left)
Valor 15, Passive, Broken Vow: Healer gets +3 Strength
You can see that the Healer I posted was much more useless offensively, but still themed around Recovery spells. It also has higher defenses. Not sure if this is overpowering in healing, but underwhelming as an actual mage, though.
Zela Forcys
But what exactly is the Mage? Is he(or she) a priest, druid, herbalist....shaman?
I personally think a shaman or druid would be awesome. ;D
A Dwarf would be cool too but they arent known for their healing powers.
Ross and Zel-
I think the lore behind the Hero Mage is being avoided. The whole purpose is to dominate and defeat your opponents in the best way possible. SO the idea that this healer should heal her opponents it ludicrous. I still think she should get bonuses to HOW MUCH she heals, an extra Valor/Card based heal, and a revive spell.
Fengo- The idea of a Dwarf in HM is the best freaking thing I have ever heard. We need more races. We have Humans and Elves. Dwarves as well as Orcs are basic races of most medieval games. They should be included too.
I think a Shaman is more elemental and would be like a sorceress. So if Ross does come up with one, it probably would be a Guardian. A Druid would be sweet! But nature kind of does blend in with the FM and Co. They are elves. I asked Ross about it once. SPOILER ALERT: Ross already told me the Recovery-Based Mage would be a Priestess. So there you go!
Magic,
I think the problem is how we can balance healing with destruction. Healing is a guaranteed move (i.e. heal 3 really heals 3), while destruction is a dice roll (i.e. attack 3 can get you anywhere between 0 to 3). Therefore, if we do get in a healer without nerfing its power, we will come to 2 scenario:
1) Everyone starts using the healer mage
2) Everyone starts going after the healer mage, even if it is a FFA
Hence, having the healer mage heal enemy units will prevent it from being overpowered. Yes, we want to kill our enemies fast, and the healer mage cannot do that. But if the healer mage can cause his/her team to be almost invincible, how fast you kill your enemies become a totally moot point.
Causing the healer mage to heal enemies does make how a player use it even more strategic, forcing them to take into account LoS even more than usual. Besides, we can build the abilities into the lore, by making the healer mage a pacifist, dedicated to helping people of Papillion, etc.
Just my two cents.
Zela
Hee hee What happens when both guardians are killed? haha no way to win...no melee..:/
There are always Summon and Destruction spells. Besides, with the healing capabilities, Revive and healing the Guardians within the same round should be a piece of cake.
This actually gives me an idea - how about nerfing the healer at 0 valor by causing Destruction spells to do less damage? Like -2 dice or something.
Zela
Okay, now that I think about it Zel, you do have a valid point. But I think that the certain healing spells/abilities should have to roll to actually heal, but still the Lore of the game is more self centered on who IS the Hero Mage? So... WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD SOMEONE HEAL THEIR OPPONENTS WHILE TRYING TO KILL THEM AND BECOME THE MOST POWERFUL MAGE EVER? This makes no sense to me. Let me give a scenario...
Healer Mage vs. Summoner
Healer Mage: I'm going to try to kill you!
Summoner: YEAH RIGHT! You couldn't kill me if you tried!
Healer Mage: Oh it's on!
Summoner: How do you suppose you'll win?
Healer Mage: By healing you!
Summoner: WHAT THE *beep*
Get it now?
-Kevin
Well Kevin, perhaps the Healer's powers forces her to heal everything? Maybe she is a gentle and kind soul who hates seeing people hurt, and her powers reflect that? I mean, the lore is more of a tool for us to build upon.
Still, if you do not want to allow her to heal others, then the only other way would be to nerf her offense, severely, and possibly even cause her Guardians to roll one less dice when attacking or something similar just to prevent overpowering. Between the two, I actually prefer healing opponents, which forces a more strategic use of the healer (through LoS, positioning and so on), as opposed to a straight up weakening of offense.
Besides, it would make gameplay far more interesting.
Benjamin
Easy fix: make any healing spell roll die (more die that the gaurenteed as of now) vs. the armor of your unit trying to be healed, having successes heal a point of damage. I would exclude the paladin from this, since it would pretty much obselete her ability.
Edit: having a restoration mage that heals would be god-awful. Having a restoration mage that modifies defense, add/remove buffs, causes resoration spells affect all friendlies in range, or something based upon the restoration cards (like every mages speciality) perhaps choosing to flip the top card of the deck until you are assured a restoration spell.
Yeah I like the idea of healing by rolling the dice. Also it would be cool for the healer to have a sacrifice like attack. Maybe sacrifice one life point to add one or two attacking dice to mage and or guards.
Quote from: Zelanius Forcys on November 11, 2012, 04:05:33 AM MT
Well Kevin, perhaps the Healer's powers forces her to heal everything? Maybe she is a gentle and kind soul who hates seeing people hurt, and her powers reflect that? I mean, the lore is more of a tool for us to build upon.
Still, if you do not want to allow her to heal others, then the only other way would be to nerf her offense, severely, and possibly even cause her Guardians to roll one less dice when attacking or something similar just to prevent overpowering. Between the two, I actually prefer healing opponents, which forces a more strategic use of the healer (through LoS, positioning and so on), as opposed to a straight up weakening of offense.
Besides, it would make gameplay far more interesting.
Benjamin
Well Benjamin, I kind of agree with you about the LoS strategy, but I would actually think Ross might want to have a little "test phase" with it, where we all could customize the healer mage into all the categories and suggestions we have put into this feed. Maybe then, we can figure out what is best for the balance of the game. Really, I don't know what I would prefer until I try it. Thanks again.
-Kevin
I have picked up the game recently, and really enjoy it. I have been giving some thought to the Recovery specialist and what sort of powers it would have. I definitely see the character as similar to an old D&D style cleric. Here are my thoughts for abilities and stats:
Attack 3
Defense 13 or 14
Life 6
Static power: Draw a card after casting a Recovery spell
5 Valor: 1 or 2 cards: Healing Touch ability
10 Valor: 0 cards: Dispel Magic ability
15 Valor: Recovery spells cost one less mana.
I see this character as more melee oriented than the average hero mage, but not as much as the FM. As a combat healer, she would need to stand next to the unit to use the 1/turn heal ability.
This iteration does feel a lot like the pally on steroids. Alternatively, the 10 valor dispel could be a small (+2 or 3) DEF boost for an ally, or an unsummon effect, or maybe a 'holy smite' effect similar in power to demonic lash.
Before you say 'overpowered,' consider this:
At full valor the character cannot cycle through the deck as well as a wizard, and IMO would be hard pressed to keep up with healing all the damage a full valor sorc or FM can shell out. Other than the guaranteed 3 close range healing each turn, she'd still have to draw recovery spells. Only about 10% of the drawable cards in HM actually restores lost life points and one of those spells only works if you're down a guardian.
Quote from: jmvh59 on May 02, 2013, 11:50:02 PM MT
I have picked up the game recently, and really enjoy it. I have been giving some thought to the Recovery specialist and what sort of powers it would have. I definitely see the character as similar to an old D&D style cleric. Here are my thoughts for abilities and stats:
Attack 3
Defense 13 or 14
Life 6
Static power: Draw a card after casting a Recovery spell
5 Valor: 1 or 2 cards: Healing Touch ability
10 Valor: 0 cards: Dispel Magic ability
15 Valor: Recovery spells cost one less mana.
I see this character as more melee oriented than the average hero mage, but not as much as the FM. As a combat healer, she would need to stand next to the unit to use the 1/turn heal ability.
This iteration does feel a lot like the pally on steroids. Alternatively, the 10 valor dispel could be a small (+2 or 3) DEF boost for an ally, or an unsummon effect, or maybe a 'holy smite' effect similar in power to demonic lash.
Before you say 'overpowered,' consider this:
At full valor the character cannot cycle through the deck as well as a wizard, and IMO would be hard pressed to keep up with healing all the damage a full valor sorc or FM can shell out. Other than the guaranteed 3 close range healing each turn, she'd still have to draw recovery spells. Only about 10% of the drawable cards in HM actually restores lost life points and one of those spells only works if you're down a guardian.
Way overpovered. Healing touch at 5 is basicly the better version of sacrifice that the summoner gets at 10. 0 Card dispel makes it almost impossible for the fm to come close also all his augment abilies would be futile. Recovery spells for one less mana seems rather weak compared to the first two