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Healer Mage

Started by MagicMissle, February 27, 2012, 01:55:08 AM MT

MagicMissle

Okay, so we have the 5 types of spells and 4 types of mages. Sorceress is Destruction, Fighter Mage is Augmentation, Wizard is Manipulation, and Summoner is well, Summon. So WHERE DOES RECOVERY COME IN???????????????? Each types of spell needs its own class!

I once thought that Paladins should be able to use Recovery spells, but that WOULD be OP so I disregarded that.

Some people would say Recovery-Specialized Mage would be OP...... Well they are wrong. Here is some ideas Ross can make to make them not "OP":

1) They can't use melee
2) They can't use Destruction powers
3) They have ridiculously low armor, like 10 or 11
4) Can not have both Paladin and Healer on your team at the same time

Some powers I would suggest:

1) To replace melee, they can have a Heal 1 Health touch "attack"
2) Draw a random Recovery card- 5 Valor Cost: 1 Card
3) Heal one friendly ally for 3 Health, ally can't be healed for two turns- 10 Valor Cost: 1 Card
4) Passive Your hero automatically heals one from itself at the start of its turn 15 or 20 Valor*
*I suggest 20 Valor, even though everyone else's is 15 because this kind of is OP.

I know this was random, but Ross you've neglected the class I would prefer to play the most.....

Any comments or dislikes?

Ross Przybylski

Healing is notoriously difficult to balance due to the guaranteed effect vs. randomness of damage; but I like your ideas here. A recovery-specialized mage has been on que for sometime; she'll definately be in a future expansion once I've raised enough funds for new unit art.
Manager of D20Studios, LLC

MagicMissle

Thanks, its just I feel we are missing out on a big part of the game. :)

Elementa

Quote from: Ross Przybylski on February 27, 2012, 06:57:41 AM MT
Healing is notoriously difficult to balance due to the guaranteed effect vs. randomness of damage; but I like your ideas here. A recovery-specialized mage has been on que for sometime; she'll definately be in a future expansion once I've raised enough funds for new unit art.

I've been thinking a lot about this lately, actually, and I had a few ideas that could be used to make balancing easier. You could do something like this...

Recovery Mage
1 Str / 12 Def / 6 HP

Healing Touch: 5 valor, 1 card - Attack adjacent ally and each hit heals HP instead of damaging. Use Str 3 for this attack.

Circle of Protection: 10 valor, passive - Any summoned creature that damages mage is destroyed.

Healing Burst: 15 valor, 2 cards - All visible heal 2 HP.

The first ability treats healing to the same probabilities of damage, so it should balance out better.
The second ability doesn't heal, but focuses on another recovery spell, Unsummon. It gives protection against summons, but only after they damage you.
The third ability is another way of balancing healing. Since it is a set amount it is balanced by affecting friend and foe alike. You would have to do careful maneuvering to have it only help you.

Ross Przybylski

I actually really like that idea to heal friendly an enemy units. Very interesting concept!
Manager of D20Studios, LLC

MagicMissle

I don't want to be harsh. but this idea, sucks. You are taking away the basic concepts of a healing based character! She doesn't get any bonuses to heals, no reduced cost, nothing. You're making her power VERY limited, which is completely unfair. She would easily be slaughtered by Mage and guardian alike. The attack-heal thing is kind of weak, the summon destroyer ability won't affect much in the long run, especially if the blow is a killing blow. And the "heal everything YAY unicorn power" (my name for it) is a little unfair to the healer herself also. That takes away the background story of Hero Mages. To make sure that each Mage has the goal of becoming THE HeroMage. So healing others would not even be considered.

Sorry for my harsh criticism,
-Kevin

Zelanius Forcys

I actually agree that healing enemy units is a fair. As Ross pointed out, healing is a guaranteed 'hit', as opposed to attacking.

The thing is, as long as you maintain your mana, and keep using your abilities, you pretty much are invincible with heal, while withering away at your opponent's health.

I actually thought of some mages back in the character idea thread, some with mixed specialization, and one with healing specialization. Here is the repost of the healer concept I did:
Healer - Mage
(0 Strength, 14 Defense, 6 Life)
Passive, Medical Training: Player's Recovery spell modifiers get +1 absolute value
Valor 5, 1 Card, Healing Aura: Surrounding units recover 1 Life (regardless whether ally or enemy, and Healer himself don't recover)
Valor 10, 1 Card, Blood Magic: Converts 1-3 Life to the same amount of Mana (this is random, similar to sprint; especially scary in situations where you need 1 more Mana for Healing Hand, and has exactly 3 Life left)
Valor 15, Passive, Broken Vow: Healer gets +3 Strength

You can see that the Healer I posted was much more useless offensively, but still themed around Recovery spells. It also has higher defenses. Not sure if this is overpowering in healing, but underwhelming as an actual mage, though.

Zela Forcys

fengo


But what exactly is the Mage?  Is he(or she) a priest, druid, herbalist....shaman?

I personally think a shaman or druid would be awesome.   ;D




A Dwarf would be cool too but they arent known for their healing powers.

MagicMissle

Ross and Zel-
I think the lore behind the Hero Mage is being avoided. The whole purpose is to dominate and defeat your opponents in the best way possible. SO the idea that this healer should heal her opponents it ludicrous. I still think she should get bonuses to HOW MUCH she heals, an extra Valor/Card based heal, and a revive spell. 

Fengo- The idea of a Dwarf in HM is the best freaking thing I have ever heard. We need more races. We have Humans and Elves. Dwarves as well as Orcs are basic races of most medieval games. They should be included too.

I think a Shaman is more elemental and would be like a sorceress. So if Ross does come up with one, it probably would be a Guardian. A Druid would be sweet! But nature kind of does blend in with the FM and Co. They are elves. I asked Ross about it once. SPOILER ALERT: Ross already told me the Recovery-Based Mage would be a Priestess. So there you go!

Zelanius Forcys

Magic,

I think the problem is how we can balance healing with destruction. Healing is a guaranteed move (i.e. heal 3 really heals 3), while destruction is a dice roll (i.e. attack 3 can get you anywhere between 0 to 3). Therefore, if we do get in a healer without nerfing its power, we will come to 2 scenario:
1) Everyone starts using the healer mage
2) Everyone starts going after the healer mage, even if it is a FFA

Hence, having the healer mage heal enemy units will prevent it from being overpowered. Yes, we want to kill our enemies fast, and the healer mage cannot do that. But if the healer mage can cause his/her team to be almost invincible, how fast you kill your enemies become a totally moot point.

Causing the healer mage to heal enemies does make how a player use it even more strategic, forcing them to take into account LoS even more than usual. Besides, we can build the abilities into the lore, by making the healer mage a pacifist, dedicated to helping people of Papillion, etc.

Just my two cents.

Zela

WorldChamp(ELITE)

Hee hee What happens when both guardians are killed? haha no way to win...no melee..:/

Zelanius Forcys

There are always Summon and Destruction spells. Besides, with the healing capabilities, Revive and healing the Guardians within the same round should be a piece of cake.

This actually gives me an idea - how about nerfing the healer at 0 valor by causing Destruction spells to do less damage? Like -2 dice or something.

Zela

MagicMissle

Okay, now that I think about it Zel, you do have a valid point. But I think that the certain healing spells/abilities should have to roll to actually heal, but still the Lore of the game is more self centered on who IS the Hero Mage? So...  WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD SOMEONE HEAL THEIR OPPONENTS WHILE TRYING TO KILL THEM AND BECOME THE MOST POWERFUL MAGE EVER? This makes no sense to me. Let me give a scenario...

Healer Mage vs. Summoner
Healer Mage: I'm going to try to kill you!
Summoner: YEAH RIGHT! You couldn't kill me if you tried!
Healer Mage: Oh it's on!
Summoner: How do you suppose you'll win?
Healer Mage: By healing you!
Summoner: WHAT THE *beep*

Get it now?

-Kevin

Zelanius Forcys

Well Kevin, perhaps the Healer's powers forces her to heal everything? Maybe she is a gentle and kind soul who hates seeing people hurt, and her powers reflect that? I mean, the lore is more of a tool for us to build upon.

Still, if you do not want to allow her to heal others, then the only other way would be to nerf her offense, severely, and possibly even cause her Guardians to roll one less dice when attacking or something similar just to prevent overpowering. Between the two, I actually prefer healing opponents, which forces a more strategic use of the healer (through LoS, positioning and so on), as opposed to a straight up weakening of offense.

Besides, it would make gameplay far more interesting.

Benjamin

Baker

#14
Easy fix: make any healing spell roll die (more die that the gaurenteed as of now) vs. the armor of your unit trying to be healed, having successes heal a point of damage. I would exclude the paladin from this, since it would pretty much obselete her ability.

Edit: having a restoration mage that heals would be god-awful. Having a restoration mage that modifies defense, add/remove buffs, causes resoration spells affect all friendlies in range, or something based upon the restoration cards (like every mages speciality) perhaps choosing to flip the top card of the deck until you are assured a restoration spell.