Suggestions and Comments

[kastenessen]

Hey all,

I've finally moved up to a better than even win/loss record, so I thought I'd jump on and post a few ideas and comments I had so far.

First up, for the most part, for such a simple idea there's a lot of tactical depth.  It is well balanced and fun to play.  The game plays well as both duels and multiplayer games.

There are a few things I'd like to add, and I'd like to see the endgame sped up - the game can grind to a virtual crawl when it comes down to an FM versus a Psion or something, despite the fact that the FM will eventually win.

I'd like to see a couple things, firstly, an Assassination mode, whereby the game ends upon the death of your heromage (like Privateer Press' Warmachine).   I can imagine that this would make for really exciting games and all or nothing pushes.

The other thing, for normal games, would be to stop card draw after your hero dies.  That would speed the end game up considerably, as you couldn't spam your guardian abilities - most importantly the Psion's Mind Control which slows things up a great deal.

Other things I'd like to see...

Private Messaging - a /tell or /whisper command to send messages to other players ingame.

Clans - not really important at the moment, but given that you have team play modes, it might be good to see down the track.  Clan ownership could be another feature for sale too. Each clan could have a logo, a guild chat channel and perhaps a forum?

Forums - why not build the forum into the client? There's space in that bar there; it'd encourage more postings, I'm sure.

Different Terrain - I'd love to see some different terrain features.  I had a couple ideas about that.

1 - Terrain that can be seen over, but not walked through.
2 - Terrain that can be both seen over and walked through, but deals damage to your units if they pass over it.
3 - Terrain that can be both seen and walked over, but you cannot end your turn on it.
4 - Terrain that phases in between walls and empty space randomly (or each turn); cannot end turn on it.
5 - Terrain (like smoke?) that cannot be seen through, but can be moved through.

Grid coordinates - we have a grid that the game uses.  There's no reason why those numbers shouldn't be visible on the margins - it makes it easier to coordinate teams "move rogue to 11, 1".

More clear teams, and staggered turns.  Teams should play one player at a time and should share a team colour between all players on the one team.

Other new units - I'm sure they're coming, but I had some ideas. Could be guardians, or expanded to heromages.

Ninja - a unit with 'stealth'.  I read somewhere on here that the goal is to have mechanics that might translate to a board game.  Here's my idea.  When you activate the ability, you place two tokens on the board, both representing the ninja.  One is real, one is false - only the player knows which is real.  You treat the Ninja tokens as normal - they block spaces and can be attacked - only the real one can attack.  If you attack a ninja, if it is not real, it is revealed.  If it is real, remove the fake and roll for damage as normal.

If you expand him to a heromage, he could also have a smokebomb ability - create a space of Smoke terrain (explained above).  If not, smokebombs could go on the ninja and stealth could go on something else (or however it best fits).

Pikeman - pretty much a standard fighter, but he'd have 2 spaces of range instead of the normal one.  He'd also have a skewer attack that'd let him strike two guys if they lined up.

Trapper - A unit that lays traps.  Here's how it might work - it takes zero cards to use, and places a single trap in a surrounding space.  There would be a limit to the number of traps you could place - probably three. Additional traps simply cannot be used rather than destroying existing ones (preventing you from just placing traps every turn - you'd need to think about placement). A trap would deal 1 die of damage, immobilise the victim and give -3 defense.

In a boardgame, it would work the same way, but you'd simply make note of the coordinates of the trap(s) (because coords should be visible). Not perfect, I'll agree, but I think it'd be very cool to implement.

Cleric - I was thinking a heromage which focused on healing abilities.  He'd have an innate ability that reduced the cost of recovery spells by 1.  His valor abilities would focus upon healing, bless-like abilities, etc.  Lv 15 would be revive.

Acrobat - a guardian.  He'd be melee and his main ability would be that he moves through units like the Air Elemental currently does.  I was thinking that he'd also be immune to Immobilise and Stun effects.  High defense, low hp.

Assassin - another unit that could be a good candidate for stealth.  My thinking would be only 1 die of damage, but Poison effect is applied on a successful hit.  A poisoned unit would take 1 die of damage every turn until healed and suffer a -def debuff.

"Null" - a guardian unit that would prevent heromages casting spells within 3 spaces (friendlies too).

Anyway, that was just some ideas.  I'm sure many of them have already been suggested, but I thought I'd post up a list anyway.  No doubt there's a couple things I've missed, but hopefully that captures most of them.

Cheers,

Kastenessen.

[diesbudt]

[Assassination mode, whereby the game ends upon the death of your heromage (like Privateer Press' Warmachine).   I can imagine that this would make for really exciting games and all or nothing pushes.]

--First Kast the problem with this is many games the hero can die before the other person even gets a turn. Basically that isn't fair (in current position or in an assassination game). Killing a hero quickly already reduces how long the game will play out and severly reduces your opponents strength.

[The other thing, for normal games, would be to stop card draw after your hero dies.  That would speed the end game up considerably, as you couldn't spam your guardian abilities - most importantly the Psion's Mind Control which slows things up a great deal.]

--the problem with this is, the guardians need to be able to somewhat stand on their own. Saying their powers are limited will make it JUST like assassination mode.  BOOM hero is dead i win cuz the guardians cant even defend them selves (and in team battle they might as well quit, because you cant do much else but move and attack). PLUS there is a stratedgy with drawing cards even with the hero dead, you can hold cards in your hand your opponent(s) might need to make sure that he wins. (Like revive, disentigrate, teleport, demonic lash, etc.)

[Private Messaging - a /tell or /whisper command to send messages to other players ingame.]

--This isn't needed. You already have PM in lobby, in a game it really isnt needed because A) part of the game is "social" politics. So all conversations should be out in the open (like it is a board game).  B) You already have a "pm" for team chat, it isnt needed for FFA because it isnt fair to secretly gang up on someone. Openly ganging up is fine.

[Clans - not really important at the moment, but given that you have team play modes, it might be good to see down the track.  Clan ownership could be another feature for sale too. Each clan could have a logo, a guild chat channel and perhaps a forum?]

--Maybe in the future when it grows beyond only 15ish people on at once. Basically it is just a "pick-up" game. I know we suggested having a separate Team ladder for teams to keep track on how they do on other teams. This would be nice.

[Forums - why not build the forum into the client? There's space in that bar there; it'd encourage more postings, I'm sure.

Different Terrain - I'd love to see some different terrain features.  I had a couple ideas about that.]

--Ross is either working on implementing this, or it has been suggested multiple times and still in conversation phase of it  But I would like (1,3). it is very doable.

*problem with 2 is at the current moment when we move a character we only get to choose where they go, not how they go there.  4 seems like alot of work to implement in what (as you said earlier) is a "simple" game. 5 is "fog of war" problem with that is, all LoS is thrown out the window, and half the abilities are useless Part of the game is the LoS at a long distance.

[Grid coordinates - we have a grid that the game uses.  There's no reason why those numbers shouldn't be visible on the margins - it makes it easier to coordinate teams "move rogue to 11, 1".]

--Already in the game, look at the log during a game you will see   Fighter mage moves [X, Y] to [X, Y].  {It starts with row and column 0 on the top left and adds one as it moves down/right}

[More clear teams, and staggered turns.  Teams should play one player at a time and should share a team colour between all players on the one team.]

--Will be added in next minor patch ross makes.

[Other new units - I'm sure they're coming, but I had some ideas. Could be guardians, or expanded to heromages.]

--I already have a thread of multiple new unit ideas, with ross having multiple im sure in his mind. They will be released slowly as the game is still new however.


@@@@@@@@@@@@-  I hope I was able to anwser or explain why some of the ideas would be unbalanced/unpopular. And also anwser whatever questions you had. I am sure Ross will be on to anwser also.

-Diesbudt

"see you in the tiled wall arena"

[kastenessen]

--First Kast the problem with this is many games the hero can die before the other person even gets a turn. Basically that isn't fair (in current position or in an assassination game). Killing a hero quickly already reduces how long the game will play out and severly reduces your opponents strength.

If this is the case, then it needs to be addressed regardless of an assassination mode - as you note, it is imbalanced regardless of assassination mode.  If this were addressed, I can't see why an assassination mode would not work.

[The other thing, for normal games, would be to stop card draw after your hero dies.  That would speed the end game up considerably, as you couldn't spam your guardian abilities - most importantly the Psion's Mind Control which slows things up a great deal.]

--the problem with this is, the guardians need to be able to somewhat stand on their own. Saying their powers are limited will make it JUST like assassination mode.  BOOM hero is dead i win cuz the guardians cant even defend them selves (and in team battle they might as well quit, because you cant do much else but move and attack). PLUS there is a stratedgy with drawing cards even with the hero dead, you can hold cards in your hand your opponent(s) might need to make sure that he wins. (Like revive, disentigrate, teleport, demonic lash, etc.)

This is just a difference in perspective - personally, I'd like to see these heroes unable to stand on their own so as to speed up the endgame.  It might be better to suggest that in team games you still generate mana (and cards) so long as at least one player per team still controls a heromage.  Obviously if only one player's heromage has died, you haven't really entered the endgame, so perhaps this version would be better - you're right, if we cut off cards too early, it encourages disconnection. 

[Private Messaging - a /tell or /whisper command to send messages to other players ingame.]

--This isn't needed. You already have PM in lobby, in a game it really isnt needed because A) part of the game is "social" politics. So all conversations should be out in the open (like it is a board game).  B) You already have a "pm" for team chat, it isnt needed for FFA because it isnt fair to secretly gang up on someone. Openly ganging up is fine.

Fair enough - could be addressed by allowing spectators to join mid-game (if this is possible, I've missed it) to talk to people in game.  Other games handle private messaging from game to lobby well.

[Clans - not really important at the moment, but given that you have team play modes, it might be good to see down the track.  Clan ownership could be another feature for sale too. Each clan could have a logo, a guild chat channel and perhaps a forum?]

--Maybe in the future when it grows beyond only 15ish people on at once. Basically it is just a "pick-up" game. I know we suggested having a separate Team ladder for teams to keep track on how they do on other teams. This would be nice.

[Forums - why not build the forum into the client? There's space in that bar there; it'd encourage more postings, I'm sure.

Different Terrain - I'd love to see some different terrain features.  I had a couple ideas about that.]

--Ross is either working on implementing this, or it has been suggested multiple times and still in conversation phase of it  But I would like (1,3). it is very doable.

*problem with 2 is at the current moment when we move a character we only get to choose where they go, not how they go there.  4 seems like alot of work to implement in what (as you said earlier) is a "simple" game. 5 is "fog of war" problem with that is, all LoS is thrown out the window, and half the abilities are useless Part of the game is the LoS at a long distance.

Ahhh yeah, pathing would be important. Given that you can't elect to break your move up damaging terrain probably doesn't work.

[Grid coordinates - we have a grid that the game uses.  There's no reason why those numbers shouldn't be visible on the margins - it makes it easier to coordinate teams "move rogue to 11, 1".]

--Already in the game, look at the log during a game you will see   Fighter mage moves [X, Y] to [X, Y].  {It starts with row and column 0 on the top left and adds one as it moves down/right}

I know its in the game - I noted that the game already uses this information.  But it isn't exactly clear or useful the way it is currently presented.  By adding a grid to the margin (even better would be to make one edge alphabetical and the other numerical), this information could be utilised much quicker in game.


Cheers,

Kastenessen.

[Ross Przybylski]

Kastenessen- thank you so much for all the great feedback and suggestions!

For starters- the Assassination mode- we do plan to add this feature (as was already suggested in a previous post).  While diesbudt makes a point that some players may prefer the standard battle, I think there are a good number of players that would find such a gametype intense and exciting.  Since the gametype would be optional at the decision of the game host (and must be agreed to by participating players) I certainly see no harm in adding it to please those that would enjoy it.

As far as communication features, we are planning to add a buddy list feature in a future release that would allow you to add friends and communicate with each other anywhere on the server.  Also- we are planning to add the ability to join games in progress as spectators and later develop this even further to allow saving games and watching game replays.

New characters are certainly on the way- and there are actually several posts started about these in our Suggestions and Comments forum that I’m sure you would find interesting.  I would recommend contributing your ideas here for more feedback from the group (the ninja/stealth idea, traps, and clerical mage in particular have also been suggested, which I find interesting).  I imagine you have a lot to collaborate and share with the community.

Finally, clan support will also be built into the game once our user base grows to a strong enough size to support it.  Keep inviting your friends- the more players we have the more support and reason we have to continue to add these new features for everyone

Kastenessen- once again- lots of info here and we are very appreciative of your thoughtful commentary.  Since you have a lot of ideas to contribute, one recommendation I suggest would be to check out the other forum posts and try to direct your ideas into appropriate categories and existing topics with similar suggestions.  I think by organizing ideas in this way, it will help others to better respond to the points you’ve made here and also help us keep track of the hot topics and development areas that need the most attention.  We’re looking forward to more insights!

[kastenessen]

Cheers for the responses guys.

I knew I forgot something - replays! Definitely worthwhile.  Would love to see that implemented.

One thing I'd like to bounce off you as well is the idea of a standardised format for ranked games.  It doesn't seem to make much sense to me to have a whole bunch of different gametypes (and different maps) all contributing to the same ranking system. Obviously not a priority now, but are there plans to standardise what contributes to ranked or, perhaps more importantly, add different ladders for rankings?

Kast.

[diesbudt]

Kast if i think i understand what you just said. You can switch the leaderboard to duel/team/FFA only and look at that.

Oh and ross on the Talk to anyone on server bit. Only suggestion I have on how to modify it, is you cant pm them while in a game with them. Because I fear FFA will become more silent alliances and 3v1 (3 being friends and talk quietly).  While only openingly talking in the same game promotes "social Politics".

[kastenessen]

As far as secret alliances go, there's nothing that stops players using third party programs like Ventrilo or msn to do just that currently.

Kast.

[diesbudt]

Yea, but I cant enter a 4 FFA game and add 2 of them immediatly to a vent/msn list. I can however add them to my friends list and talk with them right there. That is a huge difference.

Maybe make it like most online Free trial games, cant pm someone unless they are on your list AND you are on theres. Like I said, I see this as a disadvantage for fun/fair gameplay, but if implemented I will of course us it.