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Author Topic: Disconnected Games Can It Be Improved (ranked games)?  (Read 5829 times)
1EasyGamer

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« on: August 08, 2010, 11:19:44 PM MT »

I know this is a complicated issue with no easy solutions but is has happened to me many times that people get disconnected and the game is ruined. Either way whether the disconnection favored or hurt my chances of winning it has left a sour taste in my mouth and improved or hurt my ranking fictitiously. For 1v1 ranked games there is not much I see that can be done but for 4 players or more where a disconnect might ruin many people I was thinking of an improvement. The idea would be to randomly choose one of the team players still connected in the same team as the disconnected player to take over the disconnected player position. It's not a perfect solution but it seems better than the alternative to me.
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Tampit

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« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2010, 01:48:58 AM MT »

Maybe even use spectators?
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Aritheall

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« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2010, 04:58:55 AM MT »

Perhaps there should be a way, if all the players in the room agree, to make the Ranked Game become an unranked one? Or a way to just "draw" the game, so that no one wins and players can go back to the lobby and start again? Again, all the players would need to agree, so that these things couldn't be abused. For example:

T1 offers a draw
T2 Player 1: Hits "D" key
T2 Player 2: Hits "D" key
Game is a Draw. Stay or Exit?

Perhaps a different key should be used so that people don't go and hit it when they don't mean too...anyway, just an idea. Still could be issues if one of the players in the team with the advantage wouldn't agree to draw...
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diesbudt

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« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2010, 05:07:11 AM MT »

It sucks yes, but it has happened to all of us.

Anyone who disconnects can come back, that was an added change in 1.4. But if they purposely left and have no plans coming back, yea your in trouble.

This is why, you should be more careful playing ranked with new people, a lot of them can and will quit randomly.

Yes there was an idea floating around that once per game players could call a 'truce' and if ALL other players agree no one would win, but beyond there, there isn't much that can be done. Because it can be abused easily if a D/C can make a game not count or change how the game works

(Oh hey we're losing, go ahead I'm gonna go ahead and D/C so it dosnt count.)
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Ross Przybylski
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« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2010, 09:51:34 AM MT »

Thanks for the post EasyGamer.  You bring up a difficult challenge present in any multiplayer team-based game.  While we have remedied the disconnect issue for players who didn't intend to lose their connection, the matter of players simply choosing to quit and leave their partner to fend for themselves remains a perplexing problem.

Other online games (like Halo/Modern Warfare) use a reward loss system where players that intentionally drop stand to forgo bonuses and/or lose rating for abandoning their teammates.  Should we implement such a points system in the future (as is currently being discussed in the FFA topic) this might be an option.

Still, even with points as a motivator, I find this problem still happens more often than I like (especially in Big Team Battles when playing Halo).  Given the overall good sportsmanship of our community, I really like the "draw" idea where players who are clearly overwhelmed by dropped teammates early in the game can make the honest decision to restart the game for a more balanced match.  Leaving this up to a unanomous vote would prevent the abuse- and, overall, I feel most players care more about having a fun, fair, and intense game over an easy win.

@Tampit - While I like the consideration of using spectators to take over players, the problem here is that spectators would be using other player's custom heroes at their own unique skill level (which could potentially throw off game balance even worse).  Problems like - "If player A plays for half the game and player B plays for second half, who gets the rating points?" make this solution very hard to implement.

Some have also suggested the idea of having the computer take over a dropped players units. While this runs into the same fairness issue of using spectators (the computer might play better/worse than player who dropped) it could at least provide a means to keep the inactive units on the disadvantaged team moving and attacking each turn.
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1EasyGamer

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« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2010, 11:31:45 AM MT »

I agree Ross that "most players care more about having a fun, fair, and intense game over an easy win", but diesbudt argument that "(Oh hey we're losing, go ahead I'm gonna go ahead and D/C so it dosnt count.)" is very valid also. I don't see the Draw as a good solution. That is why I suggested someone take over, having an AI take over sounds like a very good compromise to me.

What did you find not good about my specific suggestion that another player from the same team take over the d/c player? Since that player is already in the game his ranking could not present a problem as if you allowed for example and spectator to take over which as you say could really imbalance the game. Having a player play as 2 or more players might provide a slight advantage cause of extra coordination but it would also  present a bigger management challenge to that player and for the most cases they would be taking on a difficult position anyway.

Also not sure if this is the case but d/c players should not get rewarded with a win even if their team wins after d/c.
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diesbudt

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« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2010, 11:41:28 AM MT »

Easy gamer, the problem with A.I. or someone taking over another persons units is many.

1)  The game is no longer the same, the team "chemistry" isn't the same, so the game is no longer the same. And rank? It will still affect the losing team, but if the team with 2 people lose, they will only lose 1 games worth (as the other guy is gone)

2) So if I join a 2v2 with a new person as my partner, tell him to D/C first turn, I get to play as both teams?  Yea that wont be fair to the other team in a long shot.  (1 of the reasons multiple accounts are not allowed)

3) You cannot strategize with a computer player, so that still puts them at a big disadvantage, whether you realize it or not.

4) What if it is a legitamite D/C  (power goes out, computer dies, w/e) And now they take a huge rating hit on the "new idea of d/cs losing extra points."?  Because the way many Xbox people cheat is instead of just turning the power off, they disconnect the Modem, so the computer cant register a ranked loss.

5) Many people in this game are fair, and would gladly vote to draw to restart and find a new partner, only those who REALLY care about rank wont, but these people I refuse to play with anyways.

6) It is only 1 game of "ranked" points.  A true leaderboard isn't correct until everyone has had 1000 games or so, as sometimes you go up, or you go down, so 1 game shouldnt be that big of a deal. Hell I lost a duel yesterday  (Thats right, I lost a ranked duel, first time in many months) and it wasn't a big deal to me, and it shouldnt be a big deal to anyone else.   And if the game is unranked, just leave and remake.


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1EasyGamer

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« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2010, 12:24:29 PM MT »

Having read what you all have to say I only know for sure that it is a difficult issue to agree on  Undecided maybe the d/c behavior for a game could be a game option (allow draw, team player takes on d/c player, AI takes on d/c player) I see pros and cons to all these solutions, none are truly fair but probably better than just removing the d/c players units. Let's play on  Grin
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Ross Przybylski
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« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2010, 02:04:28 PM MT »

Also not sure if this is the case but d/c players should not get rewarded with a win even if their team wins after d/c.

For team games, all players on the winning team (whether they were eliminated or disconnected) get credited with a win.  This is necessary as any contribution (even playing one turn and disconnecting) ultimately contributes to the final outcome of the game.  It is also common for defeated teammates to leave the game so they can play another match while they're waiting for their original game to end.

the problem with A.I. or someone taking over another persons units is many.

Absolutely right!  This is why I encourage these forum discussions.  They help uncover the reasoning behind game design decisions as well as offer opportunities to uncover new solutions to challenges like this.

3) You cannot strategize with a computer player, so that still puts them at a big disadvantage, whether you realize it or not.

That's a good point.  In most strategy games, the AI simply does what it wants and there's no way for the player to coordinate a strategy.  But...what if there was?  I've been considering giving players options to give the AI high level commands specifically for when you're using Bots as teammates.  For instance, you could tell the computer to "Heal allies", "Charge the enemy", "Retreat", etc.  I know it's not quite the same as interaction with a human, but it'd be a step above "Hey computer...wait...don't leave me to die!"

5) Many people in this game are fair, and would gladly vote to draw to restart and find a new partner, only those who REALLY care about rank wont

Actually, people that really care about rank will want to restart a clearly disadvantaged game since a win in this case would not reflect their true playing skill.  I'd like to reiterate that the whole purpose of the rating system is that is there to help you find your true playing skill level so that you can match up with opponents that will present the most fair, challenging, and balanced gameplay. By subverting the rating system, you're only hurting yourself.  Rating only means something if you've earned it.
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