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Dice Rolls

Started by kastenessen, August 16, 2010, 04:29:07 AM MT

kastenessen

Dice rolls have their pros and cons - obviously the random element makes for some exciting moves, but it can also detract from the strategy.

Another game that I've played a few times had an interesting take on this problem... they eliminated dice for cards. Malifaux is the game; if you're familiar, the way the game works (basically) is that instead of rolling dice you have a deck of cards (everyone has their own deck).  You draw a hand of cards, and each card has a number on it. This number substitutes for a dice roll - you can therefore manage the results of your dice by playing certain cards at different times.

In this game, you would probably draw a hand of say, 5 cards (or 7) and draw to replace each time you play a card. This system has some interesting effects:

1 - it allows you to prepare good 'rolls' for when they really need to count
2 - the more dice you roll in one turn, the more randomness that you incur.

Hardly expect this system to replace dice here, but what do people think of the idea?

Kast.

diesbudt

Considering heros are already easy to kill, allowing people to prepare for good attacks would be too much.

However, in other games I think that system is interesting and works.

Ross Przybylski

Interesting concept, kastenessen.  During the initial game design I considered numerous systems for handling combat (including cards vs. dice system like you mentioned as well as a dice-less system).

Ultimately, the D20 dice system worked best in our situation for the following reasons:

1) Simplicity - Everyone understands the mechanic of a dice rolling.  Using the D20 allowed us to combine multiple rolls for factoring attack strength/armor/defense (like those used in other games) into a single roll.  The prospect of using cards as dice adds an added layer of complexity harder for new players to grasp and that would add considerably more time required to plan out turns.

2) Realism - Though Hero Mages is designed to be balanced, it is by no means meant to rely solely on strategic decisions (like a game of chess).  In the real world, even the best general cannot rely 100% that his strategies will produce the exact result intended- rather, potential options must be weighed on statistical variables.  In other words, a real-world strategist must be prepared to expect the unexpected.  Using a card based system where you could plan your roll for a particular attack would eliminate this realism factor.

3) Fun - Randomness is a large part of what makes Hero Mages fun. Though it can be irritating at times when you get a bad roll streak, it's always exciting when your character makes that critical hit and emerges as the hero that changes the course of the game.  I also believe dice help contribute to the light-hearted and friendly atmosphere of our community.  The dice can be forgiving when you make a poor decision or they can be blamed when your plans don't work as expected.  They stand as a reminder that this is just a game, after all- and we're all here to have fun!
Manager of D20Studios, LLC

kefkam

Hi.

I like this game with his random. Some times you throw 8 dices and kill a 17def 6hp warrior (has happened to me), and sometimes just the opposite.

But I  wonder how would be the game if rolls were not involved. Like this:

Fighter Mage have 15 hp.
Warrior always does 2 damage each attack. he have 1 of armor.
archer always does 1 damage. he have 0 armor.

if he attacks twice, he loses 1 of armor until end of turn.
the armor reduces the damage your unit takes. (1 armor, damage redudced by 1).

shield spell: a unit in the line of sight gain 3 armor until end of your next turn.
fireball: 4 damage.
iceshards. damage 3 + frozen.

I know this is time consuming to do. and even more time to balance.
maybe it could be an option to play with test this new rules basiclly implemented.




Ross Przybylski

kefkam-

I have merged your post with kastenessen's original post about dice alternative suggestions so the community has common location to discuss this topic.
Manager of D20Studios, LLC

kefkam

ok. sorry  i didnt see this post.

i dont like either the idea of kastenessen, deciding the rolls you will use,because of what diesbudt said.

and in replying to ross. using a diceless system it is better for:

1-simplicity: its even more simply.
2-hero mages will continue not relying only on strategic decisions, because of you cards (wich are random) and the ones of your enemy (random and secret) will continue playing a big role.
3-fun. ok the game with his rolls is a lot of fun, and favourite strategic game. and i can be wrong,  but i cannot leave that idea of my mind, from like 5 months i have been playing. lets see what other people thinks about that.










FrontaLobotomy

The dice are too integral to the game itself to do away with them. Forgive me to paraphrase, but the randomness of the dice, represent the uncontrollable aspects of battle.

I just think you cant have HM without the d20. It would be a different game totally.
And i think the company name would have to change too! ;D