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Author Topic: Couple of changes that i think need to be implemented...  (Read 10735 times)
primeminister03

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« on: January 18, 2013, 03:10:37 PM MT »

The weak wizard and the other hero mages:

Adjustments need to be made  The Wizard is by far the weakest of the mages. I havent seen one opponent online that has used a wizard. Here is a comparison of stats:

Wizard HP=6, Str=2, Def=12
Summoner HP=6, Str=2, Def=12
Sorceress HP=6, Str=2, Def=13
Fight mage HP=6, Str=4, Def=14

Now let us consider some abilities:

Wizard: Manipulation spells cost 1of less mana, valor 5=swap 1 card, 10=meditation(discard a card and gain 2 mana), 15=Use a manipulation card, draw a free card.

Summoner: can have as unlimited summons. Valor 5=discard a card, summon 1 skeleton, 10=eliminate any summon and gain 3 HP, 15=Summons gain +1 Str and +1 Def.

Sorceror: destruction spells have a +1 Str. Valor 5=use a FREE lightning spell, 10=discard 2 cards, use Fireball, 15=all destruction spells deal +1 damage.

Fighter Mage: immune to immobilization and somewhat resistance to stun. Valor 5=discard aa card, teleport up to 4 squares away next to an enemy, 10=+1 to all augment spells, 15=discard 2 cards and get +3 def and +3 Str till next round.

Now how about synergy:

Wizard, can use a more manipulation spells and draw more that he most likely cant us due to being out mana. Now if he uses manipulation spells They do help save mana cost, but they are probably the least used spells in the game anyway due to no inherent offensive or healing abilities that are provided by them with the exception of TOD.

Summoner: have lots of synergies towards summons. Can always summon unless stuck on a round with no cards and no mana. Even eliminate summon has a great synergy with her strengths. Her valor 15=can is a little meh, but it is still decent. I would have added +1 hp, but i can deal with it.

Sorceress: is already a very strong mage. Most of he offensive spells in the game she is even stronger with, plus she gets a free offensive spell at valor 5 that has unlimited range. As well as another unlimited range damage spell at valor 10, albeit at the cost of two, most likely, non offensive spells. She spams offensive spells like politicians spam promises. Wink i like her, but try going against a sorceress squad with a wizard squad. Aint happening.

Fighter mage: probably the strongest mage overall. Maybe too strong. Immune to immobilization. And when stunned, cant use spells, seeing as he is very good without spells, it doesnt really handicap him at all, so there is no reason to stun him. He effectively increases his movement range with flash, which with his already strong attack, just makes him that more deadly. His augment spells get +1, which on him just furthers his dominance that he already began with. And when you get dragon fury and need that extra deathstar-laser-blowing-up-a-planet kind of attack. With blood lust cast on him after the augment boost combined with battle dragon fury will just about take out any unit and he can still cast spells from the four-5 cards still left over. This is the onlu mage i would suggest a small nerf to. Maybe his str should be a 3monk(fist instead of a 4. Maybe he only gains two cards max for not using any mana. I dont know. But he has the strength of a fighter, defense of a bard, and spell casting ability of a mage.... and NONE of their weaknesses.

Wizards have one true advantage.... they are the only unit in the game that can teleport across the map strike, cast a single mana spell and then teleport back across the map. But that is 1fine card out of 40. And it is only a true advantage when he has two of them. Sorry to go so long, but wanted you guys to see where i am coming from. Doesnt anybody else agree?

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Rugman

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« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2013, 07:21:45 PM MT »

Awesome post! Very well put but I disagree slighty. The Wizard is by design frail and doesnt stand up well in close combat but where he does earn his keep is with sick card control. And never mind the combos and havoc he is capable of at 15 valor. In my experiences in Hero Mages, a Wizard under an experienced player is not only VERY potent but very fun!
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IveGotACaseOfTheMage

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« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2013, 08:41:35 PM MT »

Very interesting insight, but I must say I disagree somewhat.  I agree with you the Fighter Mage is the best almost must use mage heads up, but I would argue that the summoner is actually the weakest mage heads up.  The Wizard gets to cast manipulation spells for one less mana so he can pretty much cripple another guys whole party while his guardians move in for the kill.  (No mana cost sleep spells?  YES PLEASE).  Meanwhile he may just be holding on to the teleport spell..........you know the one that will only cost him 1 mana to use.  He might just decide to use it at the most inoppurtune time, say when your guardians are closing in on his team and your mage is safely tucked behind a wall far away from the danger.  ZOOM teleport, sleep.  Next turn he disentegrates your mage into oblivion.  Your guardians too far away to do anything but watch in horror.  Whats that you say?  The wizard's hand sucks this turn?  Well at 5 valor he gets to swap weak cards out for something else random.  Cards aren't just important.....they are the key to winning the game.  He effectively gets an extra card at every turn at 5 valor free of charge, plus at 15 valor you might as well just surrender.  By then he'll be able to turn two of his cards into 2 plus mana and then he can just teleport AND disentegrate in one turn if he wants and still have that one mana left for demonic lash/magic missle/ice shard.  I argue that the wizard is the 2nd best mage in the game and in the hands of a skilled player maybe right up there with the fighter mage.  Just my opinion.
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primeminister03

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« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2013, 08:21:07 AM MT »

Thanks guysI for posting your thoughts. I never said that the wizard was worthless, but he doesnt compare to the other mages. Teleport and then sleep is only 2 of the 40 cards in the deck. And we just agreed that 1 on 1 he doesnt stand up to the other mages, so unleas a mage has taken some damage or has no cards and I have 3, I would never teleport to a 1 on 1 battle unless i could teleport back or i had a summon spell. I dont want the others to lose powers, with the exception of the fighter mage, but the wizard needs something else to give him a boost. Think about it this way,

with no cards, the only mages that have a slight advantage is the sorceress and fighter mage (lightning and high str). With one card, obviously depending on the card, but lets say everyone has a card in their respective schools, wizard is the one still at a disadvantage. With only one card, the wizards bonuses dont shine through as strongly as the others. With 2 cards, the wizard starts to gain momentum. But so do the other mages. It is only when you have 5to or more cards with some freebies that the wizard has a round of outshining anybody else. It is still a slim chance based on your cards.
Trust me, i want to like the wizard more than any other unit, but he just cant hang with the big dogs.
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Gorstak

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« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2013, 12:49:15 PM MT »

wizard is for experienced pro ppl whu now how to play,u should play more games,play hundred games and then maybi u will think diffrently.
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Yaemon

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« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2013, 04:49:06 PM MT »

I agree that the Fighter Mage is probably a little bit too strong. For sure it is the easiest to play. I would not mind he to have 1 less def or 1 less atk(as long as you can still roll 4 dices if you flash, that would force him to use more cards and cast less, or to just play with 3 dices atk)

About the Wizard... I don't agree he is the weakest. You just have to play very defensively and to focus or building some decent combo (discard cards and don't cast on turn 1 etc...). At that point you force your opponent to be aggressive, because if he just waits you will have some insane combo in your hand. When your opponent is aggressive, he has to take more risks, so you can take advantage of them. The wizard is the more difficult mage to play, and it forces you to play defensively... but after some turns he can roll out crazy combos, it takes less cards than you think... in fact it only takes 1 good turn with the mage to turn a game.
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Rugman

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« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2013, 08:31:15 PM MT »

Herein lies the beauty of the game! Ask 5 different people and you will most likely get 5 different answers. I believe more and more your own personal playstyle will determine the effectiveness of your Mage and Guardians.
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primeminister03

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« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2013, 10:24:30 PM MT »

I appreciate all the feedback. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts. My thoughts are if you can present a valid card combo to prove your points, then that would be preferred. I admit that I am not the best player on here. However, I do understand when something seems a bit out of whack. I recently pitted. 3 vs 3 battle with 5 computer players. Each team had one warrior and one barbarian. One team had all 3 sorceress' and one team had all three wizards. If it was just based on rolls or bad computer strategy, then ot should have still been close somewhat. My team got slaughtered. wasnt even close! I sat back to build some cards, and play defensively, but it didnt matter. Someone prove your point with some stats or something. I have played the wizard to death and I will continue to. But play 5 games as the wizand tell me how many you win against a veteran opponent online. If you win 3 out of five, let me know what guardians and give me some pointers on strategy.
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Gorstak

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« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2013, 05:11:59 AM MT »

u cant compare comps play with player one cas comps push mages in front to be killd,u should use wizard,paladin and warior,and play defensly,send summons in front to get valor fast,use warior protect ability on paladin and send him a little in front on some choke point,and the cards u should have to attack other mage at 15 valor are shield,ice shards,leach,tele oufcourse,lighting,and missile spell that cost one mana,its not easy to get all that cards but its not niether that hard if u sit back and discard cards u dont need and sending your heroes to block enemy,thats the best strategy will not fail if done right,but it may not work if u play some pro ppl.
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primeminister03

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« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2013, 09:23:45 AM MT »

Ok I will try that strategy. I was using warrior, Rogue and Wizard. It still seems that using the wizard makes your point companions much more narrowed. Still seems a little off, but I will keep playing and try new strategies.
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Ross Przybylski
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« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2013, 04:43:57 PM MT »

Hi primeminister03,

If Hero Mages was Warhammer 40k, the Wizard would represent the Dark Eldar. If Hero Mages was Magic the Gathering, he'd represent a Blue deck.

The benefits of the Fighter Mage are readily visible in his stats and abilities- and this makes him one of the easier mages to play (much more forgivable if you leave him exposed or charge right in). Think of him as the Space Marine or Necron in 40k.

The Wizard's strength comes entirely out of manipulating the spell deck and building a combo that disrupts your opponent and denies them turns. All of his abilities work in conjunction, with the most important being Transmute. The goal with Wizard is to toy with your opponent long enough to reach 15 valor so you can create a massive final attack to finish off enemy mages.

For an excellent example of the Wizard in action, I encourage you to watch game #49652. To watch game replay, goto "Friends and Account" and "Load Game". Type in the game number, 49652, and set the second number at 150 to start replay just before the start of Markeski's turn. Watch the combo he uses with the Wizard to defeat my mage.
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primeminister03

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« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2013, 12:39:27 PM MT »

Ross,

Thanks for the video reference. I understamd that the wizard is useful, but do you still think he is on par with the sorceress or the fighter mage? I will try some new strategies out, but i hate being the guy that just sits and waits for the other player to come my direction or until i get my card combo that i need. It just seems cheap. But it sounds like, that is the way to play the wizard the most effectively, so... I will oblige.
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Ross Przybylski
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« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2013, 01:04:14 AM MT »

On par? Oh yes...definitely.

A fully valored Wizard is often the most deadly adversary. I've defeated entire parties with only my Wizard left. And...it's just so gratifying to see that crazy old man just warp in and own with a crazy spell combo.
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Yaemon

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« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2013, 10:33:55 PM MT »

On par? Oh yes...definitely.

A fully valored Wizard is often the most deadly adversary. I've defeated entire parties with only my Wizard left. And...it's just so gratifying to see that crazy old man just warp in and own with a crazy spell combo.

When he gets to 15 valor I start yelling "Gandalf Mode ON" !!! Cheesy
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IveGotACaseOfTheMage

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« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2013, 05:58:10 PM MT »

^^^^

Hilarious lol.

Honestly if you dont have a Wizard dead by the time he gets 15 valor you'll be dead in a few turns most likely.
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