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Warriors protect WAI?

Started by Kvothe, August 16, 2009, 10:19:38 PM MT

Baker

I think that this screen shot sums up my feelings about the 19 defense warriors:



It took me several turns of constant beatings with hordes of summons, not pictured was the other player's 19 defense warrior that i luckily dispatched with a touch of death. I finally had to stun his warrior so he couldn't go back up to 19 defense...definitely a frustrating and boring experience.

Ross Przybylski

LOL- that is an awesome screenshot!  Originally, the Warrior's power actually was +4/-4 but I changed it thinking it was pretty weak since it made him very vulnerable- and at the cost of a card.  But, I think that limitation had a lot to do with the range of his ability.  The power should really be a means to sacrifice the Warrior to save the life of the Mage.  Being able to use the ability from a distance should help mask some of that vulnerability, since you can use the position of walls or other units to still save the Warrior and without requiring enemies to make the tedius dice slugs to defeat him.  Even without the Protect ability at all, the Warrior's double attack ability alone makes him a worthy choice of Guardian- especially when coupled with the Fighter Mage.  Not only does he grab two valor a turn for attacking, any buffs to his strength get double the bonus!
Manager of D20Studios, LLC

tors10

The power, when he had the ability was not at all OP, and removing the self buff makes him one of the weaker endgame heroes.

If the Warrior is the only one left, he has nobody to buff. There are other methods for getting rid of the bonus defense. Cripple, dispel, eviscerate, touch of death and psychic blast all neatly circumvent this. Moreover, you still have a 1/10 chance of hitting him while he has 19 defense.

Completely unnecessary nerf.

diesbudt

#18
Tors I think i have had 4-5 games where my hero or someone elses hero died, and the warrior left standing (20 def with augument) was able to take down half of the opposing army before being slain. To say its fair to have the only way to kill him easily by finding one of the few cards is insane, esspecially how Offensive the warrior can be.

Give the warrior +1 STR augument and he gets 6 dice per turn. more than anyunbuffed hero and same as a buffed Barb, but19 def vs 14...  Still way too defensive for the kind of offense the war can use.  

The only way I could agree on a balance of that ability back is to get rid of the warriors 2nd attack. so he becomes just that, a tank.

basically the wars Offense needs to be balanced around his defense  (4 dice rolls per turn vs 17 def)

Finjinimo

I think it was a neat, clever solution. My current thoughts are that guardians should not be able to use any of these types of abilities on themselves -- making your hero mage that much more integral.

I think these types of measures ensure good fast gameplay, and I am all for that.

Ross Przybylski

The essential goal of the game is to eliminate the enemy mages (the guardians are really the equalizers - serving to carry out your strategy for victory in the early game, break a tie at the end, or provide a means to contribute to the ultimate ending in a FFA game).

Many players are seeing the character balance as needing to be compared on a 1v1 basis.  For instance, a lone Warrior will always lose to a lone Psionist because of her abilities.  Or a lone Warrior can't leverage all his powers and is therefore less desired.  But Hero Mages isn’t a game where you play just one character- it’s about teamwork- leveraging the strengths of each character to make up for each others’ weaknesses.

Part of playing the Warrior strategically is recognizing his strength in the early game- you have a character that is a tank (with his natural 17 Defense alone) that can nonetheless sacrifice his own defense to ensure virtual protection of a mage or other essential character- thus adding to the vitality of the team.  If you find yourself in the endgame with a lone Warrior, it begs the question- why is my Warrior alive and not my mage when I could have used his power to protect the mage?

Quote from: Finjinimo on August 25, 2009, 11:05:26 PM MT
My current thoughts are that guardians should not be able to use any of these types of abilities on themselves -- making your hero mage that much more integral.

I think these types of measures ensure good fast gameplay, and I am all for that.

I am inclined to agree as well.  The reason we eliminated the Warrior’s ability to protect himself was that it was needlessly dragging out games where the Warrior was ultimately doomed to be defeated by the mage (adding an extra 10 minutes of dice slugging to an otherwise 15 minute game).  Perhaps limiting support powers for other heroes to ally units only (Paladin- we’re talking about you) would also help speed up gameplay.
Manager of D20Studios, LLC